The train operator just confirmed that the 444s will be returned to the Portsmouth line as requested. I still cannot wrap my head around how this turned out but it is entirely because you chose to speak up. Let us stay observant to make sure the transition happens exactly as …
March 18, 2007
Final supporters
The Issue: 65% of trains on the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Portsmouth - Waterloo line are now blue 450 class high density suburban stock which have replaced the popular white 444s which were designed for mainline use. With 5 seats across and no arm rests in Standard, limited leg room with no space to work, and a narrow aisle which precludes a trolley service, passengers are finding the 450s unacceptably cramped and uncomfortable for this long distance journey. This is a Health and Safety issue and many passengers are complaining of bad backs and other problems related to the seating. The manufacturer's specification clearly shows these trains were not designed for long distances and until recently the route maps displayed above the exit doors clearly showed that 450s were not meant to deploy south of Guildford. Waterloo to Portsmouth is an Inter-City or Principal Route of 110 minutes duration.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
The Excuses: SWT claim their new franchise commitment requires them to provide 21% more main line seats to cater for increasing demand, partly brought about by new housing developments and hence more commuters in the SWT area. A 12-car 450 has 140 more seats than a 10-car 444 train.
The Facts: SWT figures show that, of the 135 daily services, only 5 at peak times are even remotely busy, and then only between Woking and Waterloo. The latest DfT document "Southern Regional Planning Assessment for the railway - Jan 07" makes no mention of overcrowding on this line. Despite SWT's insistence, overcrowding simply is not an issue. We believe the introduction of these trains may be a cost cutting exercise, although SWT hotly deny this. The popular Wessex Electrics on the London to Weymouth route have been withdrawn and no provision has been made to replace them with suitable mainline trains. White Class 444s have largely been diverted from Portsmouth to the Weymouth route. This radical change was made with minimal notice to passengers.
The Solution: The number of white 444 class trains should be increased and returned to Portsmouth services as soon as possible. The blue 450 class trains should be transferred to London suburban lines where they are can usefully ameliorate overcrowding, particularly on the Reading-Waterloo line where the unreliable and unpopular 458 class trains urgently need replacement.
SIGN UP NOW! DON'T DELAY! PASS ON THE PETITION TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND TRAVELLING COLLEAGUES.
If you want more information about the No 450 Campaign, visit www.no450.co.uk or email [email protected].
Updates
Reached 1,000 supporters
February 1, 2007
January 24, 2007
I am honestly overwhelmed by the momentum this has gained lately. This movement belongs to all of you who refuse to accept these uncomfortable conditions on our daily commute.
Reached 100 supporters
January 11, 2007
25 Comments
450s are cramped and uncomfortable. They should not be used on journeys longer than 1 hour.
These trains are not suited to long distance inter-city working and are cramped & uncomfortable. The next South West Trains franchise should either replace or reconfigure these trains to improve the service & comfort. I would suggest replacing the interiors or cascading the 450s to the suburban lines they were built for, replacing 8 car 455 units with 10-car 450s. Some 4-car 455/8 units could then go to Southern to replace their last 313s, again increasing capacity.
THE DESIROS SUCK DICK AND SHOULD BE REPLACED BY BRITISH MADE STOCK Note: the class 350/360s also suck as much dick
Passengers on the Portsmouth branch don't realise how lucky they are! Class 450 trains are infinitely superior to many of the trains used on far longer routes on other parts of the country. The Portsmouth direct route was conceived at the time of construction as a branch line, and this can still witnessed today by its meandering and undulating infrastructure. Many other branch lines in the UK would welcome the luxury of class 450 trains.
Mr MacHin is incorrect. Portsmouth to Waterloo via Haslemere is the most direct route, classified by Network Rail as inter city, not a branch. Any "meander or undulation" is only due to the terrain in some places. The route certainly does not warrant suburban rolling stock and other lines are welcome to have the 450s if Mr MacHin thinks they're luxurious.
For a 2 hour journey, these trains are just not acceptable.
suspect its about to get worse. Announcement this morning that increased capacity from Dec 13 can only mean one thing!!
The 450 trains on the portsmouth harbour trains are not fit for purpose.
I suffer from back problems, and really suffer on the blue 450 trains, mainly because of the seat back angle and the limited space to place my legs.
These trains are a disgrace for such a long journey.
NONONO
Horrendous train for this journey
So you think you won? Ok then now that stagecoach has departed and we are facing 30 year old rolling stock rather than the most reliable fleet train despite its limitations and an operator who is terminally times worse due think that you are a clever sod David? I think your whole campaign stank and besides living in Walblington why didn't you choose to travel with GTR/Southern eh? If you didn't want big bucks in London and didn't want to travel then get a job here on the south coast..! oh there were none of sufficient quality were there..did you tell that to everyone along the way as a full and frank part of the conversation..no you didn't. Hope your back aches for ever on the seats on the 442 which will be be replaced during the upcoming refurbishment and the realibilty will decline when they are fitted with new traction motors. Yours A true railway professional!
The 450 are dreadful on a long journey to Portsmouth. I
white trains are far more appropriate for workers. boo to 450.
Unpleasant trains
The 450 class train. Has seats with a width that is too small for an adult. I think that SWT are the typical 70's style company with a "put up and shut approach" to their customers.
It’s literally torture
So where is the NO450 campaign now,? Portsmouth trains have been replaced by sub standard stock and the complaints mount to SWR and the 450s are still on various fast services, Some improvement David Habershon or as I said before are you now traveling via Southern with 2+2 seats.. the silence is deafening!
These trains are not suited to long distance inter-city working and are cramped & uncomfortable. The next South West Trains franchise should either replace or reconfigure these trains to improve the service & comfort. I would suggest replacing the interiors or cascading the 450s to the suburban lines they were built for, replacing 8 car 455 units with 10-car 450s. Some 4-car 455/8 units could then go to Southern to replace their last 313s, again increasing capacity.
Stop whining and be grateful you have electric modern trains. If you had to go on pacers instead I think you would be willing to pay double the fare to get a Class 450. Needs to be phased out? Well if you hate them so much then please do tell how it is expected to dump these 11 year old trains and buy brand new ones, while customers in the SW and North are putting up with 35 year old bouncy pieces of junk. You have no idea how lucky you are to get a Class 450 train. How would you feel if all of a sudden instead of getting 4x20m worth of seating was replaced with 2x15m worth of bus seating, half of these trains don't even have real seats, and you're complaining because your lovely modern electric train has some small seats, boo hoo! I forgot, these electric trains don't leak either, and how could I forget that they don't set on fire easily, and have lovely air conditioning too. I guess that modern trains just aren't worth giving to London commuters if they are to complain about them so much. The class 444 electric train is 5x23m, however due to this grouping of trains, it makes it hard to have flexible sizing of units, meaning the trains would have trouble fitting on the platforms, heck, even two 4 car class 450s (total 8x20m) have trouble fitting in stations such as Hilsea, how is it expected for two 5 car class 444s (total 23x10m) to fit in such tiny stations. This would make it impossible for these longer trains to operate in long formation, so busier trains would either have to overhang platforms, increasing station dwell times, or be criminally short-formed. Maybe next time you should think before you start complaining about your state-of-the-art trains. I happen to have ridden all 3 of the trains discussed, and Class 450's seats are perfectly fine.
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The train operator just confirmed that the 444s will be returned to the Portsmouth line as requested. I still cannot wrap my head around how this turned out but it is entirely because you chose to speak up. Let us stay observant to make sure the transition happens exactly as …
March 18, 2007
Final supporters
The Issue: 65% of trains on the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Portsmouth - Waterloo line are now blue 450 class high density suburban stock which have replaced the popular white 444s which were designed for mainline use. With 5 seats across and no arm rests in Standard, limited leg room with no space to work, and a narrow aisle which precludes a trolley service, passengers are finding the 450s unacceptably cramped and uncomfortable for this long distance journey. This is a Health and Safety issue and many passengers are complaining of bad backs and other problems related to the seating. The manufacturer's specification clearly shows these trains were not designed for long distances and until recently the route maps displayed above the exit doors clearly showed that 450s were not meant to deploy south of Guildford. Waterloo to Portsmouth is an Inter-City or Principal Route of 110 minutes duration.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
The Excuses: SWT claim their new franchise commitment requires them to provide 21% more main line seats to cater for increasing demand, partly brought about by new housing developments and hence more commuters in the SWT area. A 12-car 450 has 140 more seats than a 10-car 444 train.
The Facts: SWT figures show that, of the 135 daily services, only 5 at peak times are even remotely busy, and then only between Woking and Waterloo. The latest DfT document "Southern Regional Planning Assessment for the railway - Jan 07" makes no mention of overcrowding on this line. Despite SWT's insistence, overcrowding simply is not an issue. We believe the introduction of these trains may be a cost cutting exercise, although SWT hotly deny this. The popular Wessex Electrics on the London to Weymouth route have been withdrawn and no provision has been made to replace them with suitable mainline trains. White Class 444s have largely been diverted from Portsmouth to the Weymouth route. This radical change was made with minimal notice to passengers.
The Solution: The number of white 444 class trains should be increased and returned to Portsmouth services as soon as possible. The blue 450 class trains should be transferred to London suburban lines where they are can usefully ameliorate overcrowding, particularly on the Reading-Waterloo line where the unreliable and unpopular 458 class trains urgently need replacement.
SIGN UP NOW! DON'T DELAY! PASS ON THE PETITION TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND TRAVELLING COLLEAGUES.
If you want more information about the No 450 Campaign, visit www.no450.co.uk or email [email protected].
Updates
Reached 1,000 supporters
February 1, 2007
January 24, 2007
I am honestly overwhelmed by the momentum this has gained lately. This movement belongs to all of you who refuse to accept these uncomfortable conditions on our daily commute.
Reached 100 supporters
January 11, 2007
25 Comments
Horrible trains - tiny seats that cannot be used by human being sized people. Absolutely pointless. Possibly acceptable on short distance routes ie within m25 but criminal on long distance ie Portsmouth, Weymouth etc.
450s are cramped and uncomfortable. They should not be used on journeys longer than 1 hour.
These trains are not suited to long distance inter-city working and are cramped & uncomfortable. The next South West Trains franchise should either replace or reconfigure these trains to improve the service & comfort. I would suggest replacing the interiors or cascading the 450s to the suburban lines they were built for, replacing 8 car 455 units with 10-car 450s. Some 4-car 455/8 units could then go to Southern to replace their last 313s, again increasing capacity.
THE DESIROS SUCK DICK AND SHOULD BE REPLACED BY BRITISH MADE STOCK Note: the class 350/360s also suck as much dick
Passengers on the Portsmouth branch don't realise how lucky they are! Class 450 trains are infinitely superior to many of the trains used on far longer routes on other parts of the country. The Portsmouth direct route was conceived at the time of construction as a branch line, and this can still witnessed today by its meandering and undulating infrastructure. Many other branch lines in the UK would welcome the luxury of class 450 trains.
Mr MacHin is incorrect. Portsmouth to Waterloo via Haslemere is the most direct route, classified by Network Rail as inter city, not a branch. Any "meander or undulation" is only due to the terrain in some places. The route certainly does not warrant suburban rolling stock and other lines are welcome to have the 450s if Mr MacHin thinks they're luxurious.
For a 2 hour journey, these trains are just not acceptable.
suspect its about to get worse. Announcement this morning that increased capacity from Dec 13 can only mean one thing!!
The 450 trains on the portsmouth harbour trains are not fit for purpose.
I suffer from back problems, and really suffer on the blue 450 trains, mainly because of the seat back angle and the limited space to place my legs.
These trains are a disgrace for such a long journey.
NONONO
Horrendous train for this journey
So you think you won? Ok then now that stagecoach has departed and we are facing 30 year old rolling stock rather than the most reliable fleet train despite its limitations and an operator who is terminally times worse due think that you are a clever sod David? I think your whole campaign stank and besides living in Walblington why didn't you choose to travel with GTR/Southern eh? If you didn't want big bucks in London and didn't want to travel then get a job here on the south coast..! oh there were none of sufficient quality were there..did you tell that to everyone along the way as a full and frank part of the conversation..no you didn't. Hope your back aches for ever on the seats on the 442 which will be be replaced during the upcoming refurbishment and the realibilty will decline when they are fitted with new traction motors. Yours A true railway professional!
The 450 are dreadful on a long journey to Portsmouth. I
white trains are far more appropriate for workers. boo to 450.
Unpleasant trains
The 450 class train. Has seats with a width that is too small for an adult. I think that SWT are the typical 70's style company with a "put up and shut approach" to their customers.
It’s literally torture
So where is the NO450 campaign now,? Portsmouth trains have been replaced by sub standard stock and the complaints mount to SWR and the 450s are still on various fast services, Some improvement David Habershon or as I said before are you now traveling via Southern with 2+2 seats.. the silence is deafening!
These trains are not suited to long distance inter-city working and are cramped & uncomfortable. The next South West Trains franchise should either replace or reconfigure these trains to improve the service & comfort. I would suggest replacing the interiors or cascading the 450s to the suburban lines they were built for, replacing 8 car 455 units with 10-car 450s. Some 4-car 455/8 units could then go to Southern to replace their last 313s, again increasing capacity.
Stop whining and be grateful you have electric modern trains. If you had to go on pacers instead I think you would be willing to pay double the fare to get a Class 450. Needs to be phased out? Well if you hate them so much then please do tell how it is expected to dump these 11 year old trains and buy brand new ones, while customers in the SW and North are putting up with 35 year old bouncy pieces of junk. You have no idea how lucky you are to get a Class 450 train. How would you feel if all of a sudden instead of getting 4x20m worth of seating was replaced with 2x15m worth of bus seating, half of these trains don't even have real seats, and you're complaining because your lovely modern electric train has some small seats, boo hoo! I forgot, these electric trains don't leak either, and how could I forget that they don't set on fire easily, and have lovely air conditioning too. I guess that modern trains just aren't worth giving to London commuters if they are to complain about them so much. The class 444 electric train is 5x23m, however due to this grouping of trains, it makes it hard to have flexible sizing of units, meaning the trains would have trouble fitting on the platforms, heck, even two 4 car class 450s (total 8x20m) have trouble fitting in stations such as Hilsea, how is it expected for two 5 car class 444s (total 23x10m) to fit in such tiny stations. This would make it impossible for these longer trains to operate in long formation, so busier trains would either have to overhang platforms, increasing station dwell times, or be criminally short-formed. Maybe next time you should think before you start complaining about your state-of-the-art trains. I happen to have ridden all 3 of the trains discussed, and Class 450's seats are perfectly fine.
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Horrible trains - tiny seats that cannot be used by human being sized people. Absolutely pointless. Possibly acceptable on short distance routes ie within m25 but criminal on long distance ie Portsmouth, Weymouth etc.