Stop playing Bethel, Hillsong, and Elevation Music at Cedarville

heres the thing... the pastors are false teachers, yes. but the songs sung in chapel are not heretical. guys, seriously, Cedarville probably vets the music before it gets to us. You guys don't have to sing the songs you dont like just like you dont have to go to target because it supports the LGBT community. But for yall to say that your convictions should be everyone elses is legalistic and wrong. Lets not let petty disagreement disrupt the church (Titus 3:9-11).

I guess my question is. What do the church's theological problems have to do with the music? I agree that we probably shouldn't sing a song in chapel (or at all) if it contains lyrics of clearly heretical teaching. I don't think that we do sing any songs that proclaim overtly any kind of false theology, nor do I think Cedarville would allow it if it was the case. If the goal of not playing the songs in chapel is to stop "supporting them financially", which I don't think is an accurate statement in the first place, then let me bring to your attention what kind of numbers we are dealing with. With a bit of light research, you'll find that the money paid out by Copyright companies per song played is very small (some sources say around $0.003 - $0.004 per song play). That money is also divided between the record label, the publisher, and the artist of the song. The publisher would be the closest association with the churches directly as it appears most of them take on the role of a publishing company for the artists associated with them. I don't think it's accurate to make a bold accusation such as "Cedarville supporting a heretical ministry" based on a very small amount of royalty kickback that is pretty far removed from the money Cedarville pays directly to CCLI for a license. If Cedarville had to pay the church's directly with a sizeable sum of money like $200 a year, then this statement would be more accurate. Using the same logic of this claim, whenever you see an ad on a YouTube video or pay for a Hulu, Netflix, or Amazon Prime subscription, you are financially supporting a pro-LGBT agenda. When it comes to the music itself, I think we have to exercise personal discernment when it comes to these kinds of things. If you don't like the music or think that the churches are bad, that's a separate discussion from playing the music itself. I definitely think that we should be aware that the churches involved with the music are bad, but to slap the label of "heretic" on

My concern is the music itself. Yes, I agree, the lyrics are often shallow and very emotionally centered compared to doctrinally sound. I do argue though, that the band on stage (not the people, some of whom I know and love) but the sound of the instruments put together is designed to heighten your emotions to respond to the song. Feeling that feeling when you are singing and raising your hands to worship is a major byproduct of these worship songs. *disclaimer* I don't believe raising your hands to worship God is wrong - Psalm 134:2, Nehemiah 8:6, and Lamentations 3:41 are examples of lifting hands (though it's interesting - it most often seems to mean asking God for help, acknowledging your inability) I do believe we can honor God with our emotions, of course, but I don't believe emotionally centered and driven worship is honoring to our God. He would rather have your true heart, even when you don't feel like it, without any emotional stimulus (help) that will only go away later. The argument goes "the music is meant to help create a response in you to worship God." I argue that that response (regardless of the words) is an emotion generated by the music. The gospel is grounded upon truth and facts that we are called to believe by faith, and not by an emotional feeling. It's just dangerous because mixing in emotional emphasis opens a door, then another door, then another door, and next thing you know your next door neighbor is mysticism. I say this because of the history of the styles of worship music. It's crazy how much history reveals about human nature. Usually I "agree" with the words in the songs we sing in chapel, but they often can be read one of two ways, one being fine the other being heretical. I believe that ambiguity in and of itself is dangerous. Practical truth in songs is what sticks with you throughout the day, what will stick with you during trial and temptation and persecution, not an emotional experience.

I completely agree. There is a paper written by me at the bottom that explains more.

4 years ago Featured

Yes, from what I've heard, these groups have a watered-down Gospel. It's true that their songs may encourage people, drive emotions, and have a nice tune, but we need to remember our depravity as sinners. We should worship the Lord in humility, asking Him to help us obey and be sanctified. Our worship songs should reflect that and be about submission to the Holy Spirit.

But we are because when we worship through song that is teaching.

4 years ago Featured

Also when heart song sings songs in general it tends to be a performance rather than actual worship. For example last "worship" chapel made me feel like I was at a rock concert with the screaming singing and flashing lights. It's all a performance and talking with emotional voices and not about worship.

Hello Joe, please read the paper I wrote at the bottom. This is such a big deal to me because I know families that have not talked to their children in years because Bethel convinced them that they were abused their whole life. This is such a big deal to me because we are called as Christians to contend for the faith. Again, please read the paper I wrote and I hope that will change your mind.

They might be in their form of belief "crazy" but the question is are their songs furthering the Kingdom of God? I would say the answer is yes. It doesn't matter what they believe as long as we aren't teaching it here.

Please read the paper I wrote on the subject on why they should be stopped

Hello please read the paper I wrote. It answers all your objections. It is the link at the bottom. Hillsong, Bethel, and Elevation are all cults

The problem is the luring these songs do into the false churches. Also, whenever we sing these songs, these churches make money. Do a deep dive into these churches to see why they're heretical. Watch American Gospel and look up Bethel 'exposed' videos. There are several of people being filled with a spirit not of the Holy Spirit. People scream, convulse, and do all sorts of odd things in their "prayer meetings." Bill Johnson claims Jesus GAINED his divinity at the Baptism. These are all huge red flags for Bethel, and Hillsong, though not as crazy, is definitely in dangerous waters theologically.

The problem isn't with the theology of HeartSong, it's the theology of Bethel and Hillsong. These songs are designed to lure people into false churches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT1G4vQhinw

Hello. I would like to start out by saying that these groups are not necessarily heretical. However, I would like to point out that just because people have different beliefs than you doesn't mean that they are cults and are not furthering the Gospel of Christ. People are allowed to believe different things about the Bible as long as what they believe upholds the fact that Jesus, 1. Is their savior, 2. Believes that He died and rose again from the dead, and 3. Professes these beliefs. The definition of a cult is someone who has taken a religion and turned the main beliefs of that into something else. Mormonism is a cult. Hillsong United (I'm afraid) is not a cult. They are a band, and as long as the Cedarville University Band upholds the beliefs of the Bible, there is absolutely no problem with them singing their songs. As long as these bands say things that are not strictly unbiblical, then we should have no problem playing them in Chapel. And if you don't like the music you aren't worshipping, you're judging. Worship is not about you. You are glorifying God with your worship and you shouldn't care if you don't like the formation of the words or the chord progressions. Worship for the right reason and apply things to the Bible and not your heart. Thank you.

It's not that you have to stop entirely but some variety would be dope.

This is a super childish way to go about this. And the fact that it’s this much of a deal to you in the first place is pretty pathetic. Your focus should not be this much more on the human writer or the song, rather the creator the songs are pointing us toward. I think it would be wise to read Titus 3.

I ain't even here because of the theology of the lyrics. I just think the music is trash.

Bethel/Hillsong/Elevation's songs are not well-suited to worship our God, especially when taking into consideration the seeds of heresy that can be subconsciously sowed. Indirectly supporting false teachings through these songs is not something I can stand by as firm believer. Matthew 7:15-16. I pray that Cedarville sees this petition and makes the best judgement call for this. Dr. White has done fantastically in reaffirming the University's stances and goals in the State of the University Address. With a goal to establish and maintain healthy spiritual growth in the student body, we should be more vigilant in how we worship the Lord. Becoming more selective in the songs used to worship is a vital step towards improvement.

I just don't like Bethel and Hillsong. Heretics

My sister rants about them, so I KNOW they're dirt