SPs for Heart Murmur Lab

I am confused as to why this is even a debate. The computer programs are great; however, there is simply no replacement for the real thing. The murmur lab was one of the most useful hours of my education thus far. It would be a disservice to students and future patients to do away with this important learning experience.

It is vital to see/hear pathology in live standardized patients. Please don't take this away from the future students.

ND 4/5

The cardio lab with live patients who had real heart murmurs was my favorite lab of the first 2 years of the ND program because it was the most useful. It provided students with the opportunity to practice their clinical exam skills in real time while also navigating patient interactions. Hands-on labs with real patients helps students apply the theory of classroom learning to the real life scenarios of practicing clinical medicine. The words that came to mind while participating in the murmur lab with live patients were, "Things just got real.” It was exciting, rewarding, a useful preview of what we can expect to encounter in the clinic as medical interns, and a good reminder of why we chose to pursue careers in medicine.

Experience with SPs and their feedback about the physical exam is an invaluable part of lab. If anything we need more contact with SPs.

The cardiology lab suffers from a lack of time and comprehensive experience as it is. Working with the SP's was significantly helpful, not just for cardiac exams, but for receiving early feedback on patient encounters as well. It would seem prudent for our growing school to offer more time and opportunities for comprehensive labs, not less; particularly in cardio.

please have SPs with real heart murmurs. It helps up didactically and professionally

Very helpful part of the wonderfully comprehensive cardio block.

Having SPs in cardiology lab greatly contributed to my understanding of heart murmurs. I hope future students will have this experience also.

The online program was clunky and not at all user friendly. The practicality of hearing real hearts in real humans should not even be questioned. The SPs provide so much more value to us than the unrealistic video program.

We are paying for a thorough medical education, one that is not subpar to other medical professions. It is not guaranteed to have a patient in the clinic with a heart abnormality in which we can clearly distinguish and catch the arrhythmia without previous experience. I personally have learned more from the hands-on experience with SPs than from the computer program. I am having a difficult time understanding why this component of our education is being challenged; we cannot get approval for "distant learning" through recorded lectures (etc..) because we want to offer the in-person distinction between our education and other online "naturopathic" certifications. How is learning heart sounds online different from that? It would be a complete disservice to our school, our students, and future professionals to remove any hands-on learning. Including experience with SPs. I came to this school knowing we have SIM labs and SP experiences. Please do not compromise the integrity of our education by removing such vital and advantageous components to learning.

standardized patients are an extremely helpful learning tool. They allow us to improve our clinical skills beyond what is possible from simply working on our classmates.

This made a huge difference in cardio lab and is a skill as primary care physicians we should be well versed in. The software was nowhere near as effective as standardized patients. I was able to accurately hear my first murmur during a preceptorship last month thanks to the standardized patients. Having patients allowed me to connect the location of my stethoscope and the noise I was hearing to properly label the murmur.

This makes the difference in cardio lab. We have SPs for other blocks. Is the heart less important?

I’d like to ask the Dean..what would OHSU do? Meaning, would top professional medical schools skip the part about hands on learning? In the end, you can’t send us out into the world without hearing real murmurs.

Incredibly helpful!

I found this very useful in my 2nd year cardio lab and still use the skills I learned at that time.

Working with a real individual and a real heart, including the way it responds to maneuvers, is the best way to prepare for our future practice. Listening with a stethoscope and gaining kinesthetic practice is the optimal way to prepare for quality care of real clientele. SPs are worth it for our students.

I do not understand why the value of this lab would even be a question. The computer program (if the school is intending on using the same one) was not nearly as helpful nor as clear as actually listening to the murmurs in lab. The experience with the SP's was the only thing that solidified the differences between the murmurs for me. As Sarah Jones said, removing this lab would be a HUGE disservice to future students.

This lab served my learning immensely. Getting feedback directly from the SPs was helpful, and experiencing the subtlety of the murmurs on a live person was illuminating compared to the sound of the recordings.