Justice for SOC365 Students

I agree that his absence and lateness is unprofessional, but also I agree with Catherine, we are not paying on the basis of how many hours a professor teaches. There are many professors in the psychology department that does not teach for the full lecture period (instead of 3 hours, they teach for 1.5 hours). Professor Green summarizes the readings, like many seminar courses, but he also analyzes the articles as well, and maybe it is not best suited for your style of learning. You may have understood all the articles and able to summarize all the articles, so you don’t believe that is an education. Personally, I found some of the readings a little hard to understand (particularly some of the feminist readings) and Professor Green was able to summarize and help me understand it through email and through class. There are different methods to teaching and education; not solely based on what you experiences. There are many classes where it is similar to Professor Green’s, where you read the articles and in class, we summarize and analyze. From personal experience, I prefer Professor Green’s style of teaching, but it is personal choice, and hopefully in the future, you are able to find more suited lecture styles to you.

I agree Catherine. Very well put.

I really think the problem is with the TA, so what if he ends an hour early? If everything he needs to say is within that hour then so be it. There is major disconnect between the TA and the professor, her marking is unfair. But, if the main goal of this is to have the prof lose his job, or get in trouble its not fair, there many profs out there who are way worse. Many of us have issues with the TA and her hostility towards the students.

Hi Ashia, Thanks for responding to me. I'm not sure if you're aware, but we pay a flat fee for tuition, not on a per-class basis, so unfortunately no matter if we take four 1-hour classes or six 2-hour classes we are paying the same amount. I can understand why this lack of full lecture time is frustrating, however, I personally would rather not sit and listen to points being reiterated multiple times to fill time when a concise explanation would suffice. 35 signatures have been added, you are correct, but unfortunately the way this website is structured it is necessary to sign a petition - even if you don't agree with it - in order to leave a comment. I know this is true for myself, and for several comments underneath mine. Like I stated previously, I agree it was unprofessional for him to not show up to class that one day. You're completely correct! I felt like it was disrespectful to my time. However, I personally believe that other things stated in this petition are not necessary to go to the department for - especially concerning his lecture style. If you want further explanation or clarification, I have no doubts that he would be more than happy to answer any questions you have, whether during lecture, after class, or during office hours. I am of the personal belief that this petition is a gross overreaction, and as I can see through several other comments, others agree with me as well, so please feel free to show the department my comments, as well as others. I am of the personal belief that these complaints would be more well suited to course evaluations rather than a petition to the department.

Because we are paying for a two hour lecture weekly and we are not receiving that. Also I’m not sure if you are content with an education where a professor summarizes the readings where we can read them on our own time, however I don’t believe that’s an education at all. That’s called reading and summarizing, where students can do that on their own time. Furthermore, I don’t want to state what we want from this when I don’t even know what our options are. Hence why we are going to the chair to see what they can do for us. Why would I make a promise I can’t keep? That makes no sense. I understand your frustration but our goal is to see what the department can do for us because as you can see, 35 students have signed the petition because they too are frustrated and want to see what the department can do. I’m not an administrative figure in the department. If I were then I could give you the options. But I’m not. I’m only a student where I decided to take a stand along with other students who don’t agree with the way this course is conducted. Everyone is human, yes. But when you have a commitment to a job, you don’t just not show up for your shift. You call in sick and tell your employer you can’t make it into work. There are standards which are not being withheld. Again Catherine, if you don’t agree with the petition don’t sign it. If you’re content with the way the course is structured then that’s your opinion. 35 students all agree that they don’t like the way the course is structured. And that’s to our liberty to believe so. It’s also our right to petition when we don’t agree with something

I am commenting again in response to the disclaimer added after my original comment. I'm not sure what the issue is with having classes end earlier, as long as the professor is concise, clear, and covers everything. If students feel as though this is not the case, why are no questions ever asked in class? I agree with the sentiment that it was unprofessional to not email students prior to cancelling class on February 27th, however, once again, is this not something that can be taken up with the professor himself? Let's not forget that everyone is human. Once again, the question asked several times has not been answered. What 'justice' is meant to be served here? What exactly are you going to request the chair to do? What is the goal of this petition? Thank you for your time.

I have come across this petition through my friend in SOC365. I am currently taking SOC386 with Professor Green on Thursday evenings. I believe this petition is extremely exaggerated with an unclear goal. Is this 'justice' getting Professor Green fired? If so, this is his job and his life you are tampering with because you do not like his 'professionalism'? When you start working and you do not like a collegue or your boss are you going to try to petition them out as well? Professor Green comes to class every week with his lecture preplanned. Just because he is not teaching for two hours does not mean you are not getting a thorough education. He is concise and clear and keeps conversation and questions open to the class. While I cannot relate to him missing lecture due to the flu, you have to keep in mind people have personal lives outside of work. Where there is no excuse for him not sending out an email there may also be a bigger picture to the story. Please keep this in mind before you go to the chair. Professor Green has been at UofT for years and is loved by many. Don't jeopardize it

I agree with you 100%!

I understand your concerns. I have emailed the professor about him missing class. If you clearly read the petition outline were not angry about the marking. And I do not doubt that Professor green is approachable because I have approached him myself. My issue here is the lack of professionalism. He is a professor. He has certain standards to abide by and they are not being met. I, myself, have created the petition in support of another student who ALREADY has approached Donna Ragbir. She’s already approached her registrar and both recommended her to email the chair of the department. I also had another student come forward to me saying her class with professor green, soc209, last semester was also poorly administered. So clearly this is a pattern and it’s unfair that us as students are paying so much money for this course and we’re not receiving the notable education that I’ve personally received in all my other classes. We’re going to the chair because we want to see how the situation can be dealt with. We want to see if the chair can do anything for us. The other student whose approached all the other necessary individuals about this issue both recommended her to speak with the chair. I haven’t disputed my mark because I feel as if I was graded fairly. I’m not petitioning the TA or my grade because my issue here is the lack of effort the professor is putting towards the class. In my four years of university, I’ve never had a class where the professor was late to every class, who didn’t lecture for the entire designated time period, who read word for word off of their lecture summary. And I’ve already spoken with professor green after class about this. The very first lecture we had I stayed after class to ask him if all his lectures were going to be short. He assured me they weren’t going to. I understand the concern that myself and other students haven’t taken the necessary steps in approaching the situation but I can assure everyone we already have. That’s why we

I completely agree with everything said here. Thank you for being so articulate.

I agree with this poster. Speak to Professor Green directly first. Why would this not be addressed on course evals rather than through a petition?

So true!

I AGREE!

I agree that TA's grading is pretty inaccurate, and I also agree with Catherine about Asia Bak. What exactly is our fellow peer Ashia Bak trying to get out of this? What kind of conpensation are you refering to? If you got a low mark in the midterm and are expecting him to give out 5% or 10% or more to every single student in this course because of this petition, then I highly doubt that is going to take place since that would be violating the U of T policies. If you have a concern about the midterm mark, then why didn't you petition about it when the tests were returned to us? Why did you wait till the 2nd midterm to take place? If you are concerned about his lateness, why didn't you address it after the first 2 or 3 times he was late? If you are concerned about Feb 27th misinforming issue, why did you wait till 3rd week of March to address almost a month-old issue? These are some questions you should rethink. Of course, Prof Green has certain lackings or his teaching method may not work for you, but the point here is that this method of petition is NOT the right way to address your concerns. If you have an issue, SPEAK to Prof Green first and if it doesn't get resolved, then speak to the Soc Undergrad Program Administator (Donna Ragbir), and if both of these individuals cannot solve your issues, then go to the Chair. A petition is such an unethical method in this case. Let's be honest folks, everyone here who got a low mark is bashing the Prof and hoping to get "compensated" by extra free marks, but that's not how U of T or any uni works! I also got a mark that I think I don't deserve as it doesn't reflect my test performance, but guess what? We had one long week to address it with Prof Green, and how many of us actually took the time to write 1-2 pages about why we think we deserve more marks? We can't just claim it based on our judgements. We have to support our claims and arguements and follow the U of T re-grading policies. Instead of making the effort to w

I think Prof Adam is not the issue here. The problem is the TA Rddhi who doesn't grade in a fair and accurate manner according to many of us. Although Prof Adam is late sometimes and does summarize his lecture notes quite a bit, but that is his teaching method. Every prof has their own teaching method. But Prof Adam is actually very friendly and approachable if you take the time and make the effort to speak to him about your course concerns. He also replies back to my emails within 12 hours which is ridiculously fast compared to most other Profs at U of T. So far, he has been supportive and helpful to me and everyone in this class whom I spoke to personally regarding him. If you are concerned about your grade or have issues about his teaching methods, I would suggest that you speak to him directly and address all your concerns. You can even suggest him to use different teaching techniques instead of just summarizing his lecture notes. Perhaps PPT slides would be a better method. If you're claiming that this course has been unfair to students, then this petition is equally unfair to Prof Adam because all of us are petitioning against him WITHOUT addressing our concerns directly to him first before meeting up with the Chair. Just remember that he is not purposely trying to make our learning experience unplesant. He is teaching in his ways which may not work for many of us, so it's our responsibility to let him know that we are not satisfied with his teaching style, so that he can get an opportunity to change his methods. Good luck!

Has anyone actually spoken to the professor about their concerns? While I agree that his unexplained absence was unprofessional, I believe that the grading is extremely fair and reasonable, especially considering that both tests (as well as the exam!) are open book. The course structure and the lectures are both fine, if you do not learn well in a seminar-like environment, that is something to discuss with the professor or the TA for extra help. As students, we are not going to enjoy every single class and certain teaching styles will be more efficient for some than for others, however, as the students again that is our responsibility to go for extra help with either the TA or the prof. To reiterate what someone else has already stated, I hope that whoever organized this meeting has taken the appropriate steps before going to the chair. I would also really like to understand what anyone is hoping to be compensated by. Is this meant to be financial compensation, compensation in the form of Professor Green removed from the class? I tried emailing Ashia Bak, who started this petition, and he was unwilling or unable to answer this question: What is the ultimate goal of this petition?

I think the real disconnect here is between the TA and the professor. Things he stated in class was marked wrong on my test, he is a nice person however, the TA is very rude and unapproachable. My main issue in this class is the grading as I feel it is unfair and even through discussing with the TA it got me no where. Also, I do agree with the lateness, and not informing the class, we should have received an email. There is unfairness to the students and I hope something will we done about this!

Thank you for your response. Has she spoken to the sociology coordinator? Because from my understanding that the's first person you're supposed to contact in the department.

I agree that it is disrespectful that he did not inform us of his absence and he does not arrive on time to class, but at most it is 10 minutes late considering class technically starts ten minutes after the hour. Although he reads off of his lecture notes, I personally understand what he is stating and if individuals didn't understand, they were more than welcome to ask questions. In class and outside of class, he is very approachable and always welcomes questions. Overall, the course structure and lectures are fine, it is structured as a seminar type course you would see in many 4th year courses. Coming from a non-sociology major, the test formats and marking was reasonable (considering it was an open book test).

Unfortunately I have taken several courses that were taught more poorly than SOC365 through the department of Sociology during my time at U of T. I do agree that his failure to meet deadlines, his unexplained absence, and his being late each class are problematic and unprofessional, however I think that the course readings were well selected and the examination formatting has been appropriate. Although it may not reflect my peer's experiences, I believe the mark I received for the first exam was fair.