Experiment promotiestudent NEE

Graduate students are just as much staff as they are students because of the intense amount of brain power and physical effort they must exert for ther work; furthermore, the school would receive the majority of the credit, and for continued funding. They are working for the college.

belachelijk

The work that a PhD student does for the university should be considered as full employment.

Als de overheid in de top vijf van kennislanden wil blijven en wetenschappelijk talent, met name in de bètawetenschappen, wil behouden, dan is invoering van het bursalenstelsel niet het juiste antwoord. Dit was ook de conclusie van de Raad van State in November 2012, in een advies over de plannen. .. This should be clear!

As PhD students we are fully functioning employees of the university, doing a lot of original research as well as serving important teaching duties. We may not be as productive as scientists further in their career, but that is no different outside science: it just takes a while to learn how to do a job at a high level, especially a very complicated job. If the government wants to do more research with the same money, they should create more permanent positions. That way the people who have the experience to do great research can be retained, and those who are already employed by the university may actually find some time to do research, rather than being stuck in teaching, supervision, administration and acquisition all the time. Also, if The Netherlands wants to be able to attract top scientific talent, there has to be a reason for that talent to come here. Since we are a small country and our universities are all public and government funded, our universities will never have the name recognition of the famous English and American universities. So if we adopt the same working conditions for PhD students that are common in those countries, our institutes can only be second choice for the best students behind more well known foreign institutes. This will be especially true for international students, who won't have much reason to apply here other than not being able to get into more prestigious universities, but the top Dutch students will prefer to go abroad as well.

Solidarity for international worker's rights!

As support staff I have daily contact with PhD Students; I see how hard they work every day. They are not students, they ARE employees. Please keep them like that!

The current employment conditions enable an expat PhD student to apply for a long term residence permit instead of temporary 1-year-long ones. With that in mind it would be a great dis-service to all expat PhDs to change the type of contract they receive. Particularly those who have a hard time applying for visas because of IND regulations.

Het experiment promotiestudent is een ondermijning van Nederland als kennis land.

Promoveren moet niet gezien worden als opleiding. Een gepromoveerde moet geheel zelfstandig in staat zijn een wetenschappelijk onderzoek te kunnen op zetten, uitvoeren en analyseren. Derhalve mogen ze niet gezien worden als student, die recht heeft op intensieve begeleiding. Daarnaast een studie tot minimaal je 28ste is absurd.

The current difference in wages between PhD candidates and positions outside of academia are already keeping postgraduates away from pursuing (at least) a PhD. I can not for the life of me conceive how worsening the terms of employment, thus effectively widening the aforementioned gap could be a positive endeavour. Given that there are generally more applicants than accepted candidates for a position, you could actually hire more PhD candidates. But the amount of supervisors will not grow proportionally. The extra workload then is imposed on the supervisor, who already spends a great deal of time writing grant proposals instead of doing actual research and/or teaching.

The reason I came from the US to do a PhD in the Netherlands is, in no small part, because PhD candidates are recognized civil employees with full-time work status, unemployment benefits, pension, and legal protections. The benefits of being a civil employee was the tipping point for me when considering PhD positions at different institutes in different countries. Cancelling this status would be a slap in the face to me and the many, many other international PhD candidates who move far away from our home countries to work in the Netherlands. It is absurd -- please, please do not do this.

Dit is een ontmoedigend beleid en zal een averecht effect hebben. Om mee te blijven draaien in de wereldtop zijn er dokoren on professoren nodig.

een promotie is werk!

lekker uithollen die wetenschap, zo komen we er wel (sarcasme)

Dit betekent het einde van de kenniseconomie. Stop!!!

This is a retrograde view of what a PhD is. PhD candidates are contributing to research and should be employees. You can't expect researchers to be part of the society if you confine them to the role of perpetual students.

I ask the Dutch Minister of Education to cancel the planned experiment with the introduction of student PhD candidates ('promotiestudenten').

This will most likely lead to a braindrain of good Dutch PhD students to other countries where conditions are better. It will also make the Netherlands a less attractive coutry for foreign PhD student.

I was a bursary student at the University of Groningen and I do not wish anybody to deal with it. It is not only much worse contract in terms of money, social benefits and status (even had problems with renting, because I was regarded as a master student), but also had problems with tax office (every year for the last few years), which wanted ME to pay the social allowances that University didn't pay for me. In netto calculations I would have to return half of the scholarship over 4 years back...