For an open discussion on the Bursary Experiment

this is a predatory practice and a hoax for foreign candidates

I'm against the bursary system. 1) We don't have the same system as in other countries. One starts the PhD-trajectory after finishing the master. It is good to have social security instead of being a student for 3 more years. 2) This experiment has already done, and failed. Don't experiment on humans for the sake of money. 3) Extra PhD students can only be realized when there are enough post-docs for daily supervision. I don't read anything about that. Start investing in extra post-doc positions instead of PhD students with a shortened traject. 4) Teaching is an important part of the traject, especially if you want to continue in research. Communicating about your research and learn to explain what you're doing. Not only to other researchers, but also to tax payers, who pay for the PhD positions. 5) Please, stop using quantity as an argument for improving the quality of the knowledge economy. It is not about the numbers, it is about the quality of the traject. 6) As others already stated: equal work, equal pay, equal rights/benefits. And also, it is a weird situation that there are so many uncertainties about the system and the experiment. No one can make an informed decisions about this. First the rules of the game, than decide if you want to play. Not "making up rules" while playing.

If we switch to the bursary system, PhD students are no longer allowed to teach, while teaching experience is important if an academic career. We thus obstruct their opportunities to prepare for the future. I also think it is strange that indeed there would be two 'classes' of PhD students.

I think there are some issues that the Board should also concern about putting PhD student in a “bursary term” instead of a normal employee. For a PhD student site: - Difficulty in finding accommodation: It happened to me since nice areas for living and working (not partying) are rented for only employees/ family. As a graduated student without any attached-partner, sounds good to focus on career and do a very cool PhD study, but if you don’t have a working contract, you loose from the very first step! - Feeling something un-fair: Why do most of employers enjoy recruiting PhD-students than hiring technicians for their new projects? We all know its not because of the quality of technicians (since they are insanely good in what they are doing), but for the delicate and working attitude of the PhD students. If you check the lab, who are the one working 12 hours a day (9am-9pm), who are the one that mainly in charge of finding answers for all cool scientific questions out there…..And would it be fair if you are not employees (be treated as bursary students), but the technicians are? For the university site: - Loss of competition in attracting young and talented PhD in the PhD-market due to the fact that you lose your strongest point in providing PhD student a good care for their life (bursary PhD has lower salary and benefits than employed-PhD). Though the University is ranked in a top hundred (90th-100th) in the world for many years, the academic attraction is not as competitive as other university in the Netherlands (Ams, Erasmus, Utretch). Moreover, dynamic lifestyle of other cities are also their bonus point in attracting the youth. It is obvious if you notice the flow of graduated-students from Groningen into bigger cities, but there is hardly a stream of students from bigger cities to Groningen. One may argue that now we have a lot of international bursary PhD student, and the bursary status works for them! Well, it is because they are not from the Netherl

Daniela, You can visit gringroningen.com to get more information and send us a message if you have more questions. The way current bursaries will be affected depends on the Faculty you belong to and the restrictions of the scholarship you came with.

We also (GRIN) agree with this points, particularly the fact the current contract PhDs are as independent as current bursaries when it comes to their proposal. There are questions regarding the quality of the proposals if no supervisors are involved and the difference of having your own proposal if you've been a Master's at the RuG or come from abroad. For now I can assure you this are pressure points we are focusing on. About the teaching aspect, bursaries in the experiment will be allow to teach (because is a fundamental experience), except that the time they dedicate to it (and the correspondent ECs) will not be mandatory as for contract PhDs. This is because if they teach in the same official way their work would be considered labor and hence taxes issues arise. It will be more dependent on the bursary to choose to teach, which I think most will do.

Simon and Ruta, We also agree that the information should be given beforehand (from GRIN). We are pressing to have this in the University website, so people understand what is happening even before applying. We are also working on putting our own info more 'out there' so if the RuG web does not chance fast at least they have us. If you have any promotional ideas, please, let us know.

Ximena, The main difference is that within the experiment the bursaries would be better regulated. Right now there are discrepancies among their total income and their contracts, and there is no protection from the tax office in case they run into trouble. The experiment, in theory, will make all bursaries through the University equal and protect them against tax collectors. Visit gringroningen.com for more information and send us a message if there are more questions.

Heli, (from gringroningen.com) This is a great comment. When discussing the bursaries within the system it is easy to forget that people from other backgrounds do not have the concept of contract and bursary PhDs; it is when they arrive in the Netherlands that the differences start coming up. The good side of this is that applicants from abroad will remain with the same quality, as for them the goal is a competitive PhD and a scholarship sounds good; the other side is that we have to ensure the system is not leaving them in a position of vulnerability. We are working hard to make sure that the information reaches them before they make any decisions (such as promoting that the description of types of PhDs is the firs thing they see in the University website - which hopefully will become a better website in the near future).

Harmen, Check gringroningen.com every now and then. When we have more info on how the experiment is actually going to proceed, it will be there. For now, we know that there already a few applicants for the next cycle, so at least we will get a sample to see how the whole process evolves.

Peter, We are curious about this too (gringroningen.com). There are some ideas about the specific measurements that would be used, but we do not have the list yet. We hope to be able to get this information and participate in understanding how the experiment is going in the future. Our goal is to inform the whole PhD community of course.

Hello, (from gringroningen.com) The 850 sounds impressive, however, the increment is in the 20% of the typical number of PhDs accepted every round. It is still important for supervisors and space considerations, of course, but the University has consider the logistics involved in this incremente and is confident that it can cope. We agree with you about the different feeling on the personal development of somebody who comes to do a PhD and suddenly realises that being a bursary has constraints that a contract PhD does not. Unfortunately, that is a concern for which we still have no specific answer.

Barbara, (from gringroningen.com) Good question. In theory there will be a research budget available to every bursary, ensuring that they can go to conferences, get new materials, etc. It is not yet clear on paper how it will function, but the University has ensured that it is being considered in the overall experiment plan.

Siqi, You can look at the main differences in our website at www.gringroningen.com As for what to do about the differences, well, that is why it is important to raise our voice and ask the authorities to think about this things and give propose solutions.

Hello, (from gringroningen.com) You are right, 850 is a big number. The University has a plan to fund more possible supervisors and teachers, so there is proper guidance and classes for everybody. In theory, all PhDs (bursaries and no bursaries) will be able to get a proper education and proper training. The quality of the students will be ensure by motivating master's from the RuG to go into a bursary PhD and by taking internationals that commonly come from the highest levels and are ok with a bursary position as they do not know that there are other types of positions. Hence, the quality of the students will always be good and if the plan of adding courses and supervisors works, everybody will be adequately trained. I agree with you though, only time will tell if this scenario in paper works the same way in real life.

Paula, The experiment has the intention to test if the bursary system is a good choice for the Netherlands; even though bursaries exist, there is not much control on their situation and hence is difficult to do any analysis. The experiment will allow more control on things such as total salary and type of contract, and by the end of it authorities will be able to assess if more bursaries should be taken or not. The problem is that there are no specifics on how the financial situation will be administered or what would happen with social security and taxes (both areas in which current bursaries have problems). For more go to gringroningen.com, and send us an email if you have specific questions.

The bursary is not the most wanted situation, but if it is happening is important the the bursaries never feel in a vulnerable position, as they have before. With the participation of the PhD community we might be able to ensure policies that establish equity and safety of all the PhDs.

Department of Economics, Econometrics and Finance

I am currently a bursary student who would like to know more about the "experiment". Since many countries around the world treat PhD candidates as students, I think that the Netherlands has an advantage on hiring them as employees, giving more benefits, for example. On the other hand, I understand also that for international students who really wish to have an opportunity abroad to conduct their research in a high-ranked University, it might be a good choice.

I am against this idea. I am an international PhD student. It is true that 2-class system of PhD system existed already, especially when you focused on the financial and technique assistance for bursary students in RUG. The major reason to this problem is because there is no applicable or less applicable research proposal for bursary students compared to RP for PhD students recuited by research fundings. 850 is a big number. How can university guarantee the quality of future bursary PhD students? or Is university board going to reduce the standard? Later, this "experiment "will damage university reputation and alumni.